ESL,The Debate, The Poll, The Community
• Posted By
aKaaa at 2011-12-31 16:22 CET
• Hits: 3711
The Debate, The Poll, The Community
Over the last few months a lot of changes have happened in the scene through both Valve enforcing 66tick into the game as well as ESL enforcing new rules like dBlocker, lerp and interp_ratio changes. We are now midway through the ESL: Autumn '11 season and teams have had a lot of time to get use to the new settings.
From reading the zeroPoint news posts and forum threads, we still see that many people do not like what has been done and are always putting their input into threads. There is two sides to every story and we have on quite a few occasions had some very interesting threads with detailed and constructive arguments. However nothing has come out of it as the admin team have not really been given the best feedback or it always seems to turn into flame OR they just do not want to listen and will go on to do their own things.
We all wish to continue to play in ESL and I would like to see the return of the French and others who have lost interest with ESL due to the fact there opinions were ignored in a poll a few seasons back about the tick. We all know the vote went in the way of the 100tick however it was ignored due to the use of dBlocker.
This post may not do anything, the admins could still continue to do what they think is best however I would once and finally like to see what the thoughts of the scene are and if they go in the way of keeping the current set up then I can finally just shhh up and turn off my net_graph!
As using any form of poll system would just allow people to cheat and ruin the vote, We shall be doing the vote in the thread, You will simply need to answer the questions and we can then see what the thoughts of the scene are! I shall also be seeking to post this on both dodFrance
and any other DoDS site to get feedback for the new seasons that no doubt will spring up!
Would you rather 15.2 lerp and interp_ratio 1 OR 0 lerp and interp_ratio 0?
Do you like using Dblocker? Yes or NO
ESL Wire has caused a lot of problems for some players, should they be punished or should ESL fix their programme?!
Are there any other changes you would like to see in ESL?
Just for an example of my own answers, I shall post below this.
I would like to see the return of 0 lerp and interp_Ratio 0. I have read all the arguements for it and the fact it may just be a bug HOWEVER if it is a bug and has no benefit, why can I not use it? If I found it more enjoyable and did not have as much of this shooting round corners then why can I not use it?
Keep dBlocker, It is doing its job I think, If it stops people using illegal ESL commands then win win
ESL Wire works fine for me, however some people have had problems. They can make as much support as possible but still cannot get it sorted. Maybe we need a way that if admins know these players are having problems and that it cannot be fixed, maybe they should be allowed to play but forced to upload demo's straight away. Also if their is one rule for one, then everyone must have this rule. Seems a lot of people get away with stuff and others do not.
Changes, apart from the ones above. I think we just need to be a lot more clear on dates and defaults. I know people struggle to play but when we are now two weeks late for a play off you gotta think what went wrong? However solo is doing a great job considering he was pretty much on his own running things.
On one last note, this is not a flame at Solo or any other admins. We just need to see what everyone wants, we have had a great season of testing but now we should be allowed the choice to see what people like or would like! So please, get posting, send the link to your friends!
Name: Aaron "aKaaa" Swain
Location: United Kingdom
0 / 10
( 0 Votes )
2011-12-31 17:28:30 CET
solo: why always me?
2011-12-31 17:31:30 CET
you should know yourself that the question about Wire is pretty much senseless, as you worked as Admin yourself and should know how all the stuff works aKaaa
2011-12-31 17:43:22 CET
But not everyone else has.
2011-12-31 18:15:36 CET
not really apone. I know how it works. Yet wire wasnt ment to have this many problems!!!
If wire doesnt work. They aint allowed to play. Thats the rules but that isnt followed.
2011-12-31 18:21:24 CET
I don't wanna be rude aKaa but only one who I saw ever-never complain about lerp is you, srsly.
And yes dblocker is nice, why should take it off.
Well wire is what it's and I think it won't change in near future :D
Nice things what ESL admins added to this season is double-elimination & bo3 system, well done Solo&co!
Edit: Wire crashed every match this season for me and many times for team mates & enemies also, anticheat team should do something for that :S
2011-12-31 18:44:36 CET
wire is fine. most problems are clientsided and can be solved afaik.
Of course there are some exceptions, but mostly when I see some uploaded "wirefail" jpegs, I have to laugh about the ridiculous errors. (plz login on esl page or w/e)
The idea of "no wire, use demo then" is not really good, because most players will directly do this if there appears a problem (which might be solved easily).
dblocker is fine.
lerp: I didn't feel any difference. -> I don't care.
2011-12-31 19:16:09 CET
For me there is no difference between 15.2 lerp with interp ratio 1 and lerp 0 and interp ratio 0. I think it's all just a mind game of what people think and what their opinion is on this lerp thingy.
dblocker in my opinion is a great tool! I see no reason to remove it.
ESL wire problems. To punish or to fix it.
It all depends on the kind of problems obviously. Problems that often occur and are easily solved should definitely be punished, however it's hard to determine which problems are easily solvable and which are not. I don't think much can change with this system.
Other things I would like to see changed in the future is the enforcement of rules. This season a lot of premier division teams have received enough penalty points to be kicked from the league. However, the admin team decided to drop those penalties because this would result in too many dropouts if I understood correctly. I think that's the biggest load of bullshit ever and above all unfair towards the teams that followed the rules. Why have rules when they aren't used?
Also, maybe a standard demo upload after every match, regardless of wire working or not, would decrease the amount of cheaters.
That's about all lol, Happy new year everyone! See you in 2012
2011-12-31 20:02:48 CET
dblocker i think has been a huge success and i hope we continue to use it.
the lerp thing, i have no clue what is good or bad so i'll just go with the flow :)
I would like ESL to more demanding when it comes to Wire. Everyone has to use it and I believe ESL has to punish hard when their rules aren't followed. I also believe that many of the rules in the ESL are quite stupid, like our Zeleta case and many others like it where the punished team has no advantage at all.
I'm not even sure we can finish the remaining games this season because of this rule, hopefully we can, but it far from certain.
2011-12-31 20:07:51 CET
1.0 lerp please
3.Both me and zu got pp's after getting help on how to fix our problem I thought this was slightly unfair as we both had no idea how to solve wire and we didn't use it so we didnt get a deafult loss, now we've sorted it but it's not fair to give us 6 pp's for ff in total were now on 11 and i'm more scared of getting a pp than playing the opponents.
4.Equal pp's for EVERYONE, less victimisation and more community questions rather than changes strictly decided by one person, no names mentioned.
2012-01-01 00:48:36 CET
its aKaaa, osKid x.
I may be the only one who moans but still my point is relevant. If it is a bug then why cant i use it? If it doesnt matter. Then let me and jo3y use it....
However thanks for great answers so far. Keep it up x
2012-01-01 00:53:49 CET
You must be most pitiful guy in the world, aKa x.
And if it's bug how it should be allowed to use
2012-01-01 03:39:52 CET
... if a bug gives no advantage what so ever, why should it be banned? it goes both ways.
2012-01-01 04:29:29 CET
Tell me then how lerp 0 is bug :(?
2012-01-01 11:22:52 CET
I'd like to know who was originally the mastermind behind this "lerp 0 is a bug" conclusion and how did he figure it out
2012-01-01 11:39:56 CET
ask the frenchies again about the lerp stuff
2012-01-01 12:34:35 CET
esl wire is SHIT.. why do people get pps if the fucking tool is broken? its not peoples fault if the fucking tool is broken... esl admins you are fucking retards
2012-01-01 12:58:54 CET
2012-01-01 13:03:41 CET
Just open support ticket after match with screenshot and no penalty points... MIRO U R FUCKING TARD :::D:D:d:D::d
2012-01-01 13:55:44 CET
your incorrect fella. By the rules, if your wire diesnt work you cannot play even if you take a screenshot. You must use a support ticket pior to the match and if its not fixed then you still cannot play. The rules were updated last season where even takin a screenshot means pp's! My understanding of the rules. #17
there clearly is a difference betweeen 15.2 and 0 with the interp_ratio. I notice it a lot more on 66tick servers. But maybe its just me and how im use to sumthing.
Nice comments so far, keep it up x
2012-01-01 13:59:44 CET
Well dunno why no1 of us (chaotech) get any pps coz wire yet even if it didn't worked, they just opened support ticked and all fine. "Your incorrect fella"
2012-01-01 16:24:03 CET
Shhh you. I notice a difference with lerp zero and interp ratio zero. So does a lot of people. It clearly isnt the same as uding 15.2 and ratio 1.
you bring up another point. What is the point of rules if its one rule for one and another for some one else? Clearly states in the rules if wire doesnt work you cannot play. If it fails and you open a ticket and its ok then people in theory could cheat and just follow suit? Why shud people like nightmare antrax etc get pp's when they did enter tickets for problems?
The fact is, you enter a support and fix the problem. If it doesnt fix it. Whst do you do? With the rules, you cant play so teams coukd of protested and got pp's?
2012-01-01 17:22:41 CET
Maybe if people actually had a look at their wire prior to the match things wouldn't get as messy as they are now. If you would open a support ticket then you, as well as the admins, would have some time to figure out how to fix your problem. You can't demand from the admins to know every fix to every problem out there straight away.
Can't imagine why no-one has thought of this before blaming the admins in this thread...
2012-01-01 17:49:10 CET
all the whining about lerp and stuff is complete bullshit, I personally have never felt any difference between lerp 15.2 and 0 (maybe an occasional corner shot bug or whatever but thats like once in the 2 months) but thats just part of the game, live with it and accept that it might happen once in a while.
I personally like dblocker alot, it fixed the map bugs pretty nicely and all the forced settings kinda mark the dodgy and non dodgy players imo.
About wire, I think it's an ok'ish program except for the fps drops and the times it gives errors on uploading stuff. But when those errors happen after a match its pretty annoying that the support ticket wont be checked untill some days after it, I understand that it takes a shitload of time to check support tickets and judging them, but it kinda leaves the players in the dark for a bit too long. I dont think anyone should be punished if they didnt do anything wrong, if they have a clear reason and proof it should be fine, but thats just me.
I think the ESL is doing a great job keeping competitions running and I dont understand why people keep whining on the esl admins about new maps and new rules etc, appreciate what they're doing, if you keep flaming they might aswell decide to quit the ESL dods section. That would be pretty catastrophic as its the only league that actually ends seasons.
Stop the flaming, appreciate and show respect to everyone and learn to think positive and progressive for dods sake.
2012-01-01 18:31:44 CET
lerp 15,2 or 0 dont carre anyone at css nobody cry about it
wire workes sometimes and sometimes not and the german staff dont carre about it if a player dont play with it so its fine
2012-01-01 18:37:51 CET
read last sentence of #19
2012-01-01 18:38:36 CET
0 lerp< I don't give a fuck what it does, it just looks better>
wire is needed,
The demo point is a good one,
2012-01-01 19:15:51 CET
That's BS http://www.esl.eu/eu/dods/6on6/league/autumn2011/prem_playoff/mmp/show/24755665/70559196/#/eu/dods/6on6/league/autumn2011/prem_playoff/match/24755665
(esl wire problem) http://download.esl.eu/matchmedia/24755000/24755665/70559196.jpg
(one of three tickets i sent) http://download.esl.eu/matchmedia/24755000/24755665/70558868.jpg
(screenshot before re-installing wire & before removing avg)
Still had the same problem after deleteing avg and reinstalling wire.
yet i still get pp's...
If people have been getting off for this before they deserve to have the EXACT SAME PUNISHMENT OR I WANT THIS REVOKED.
Too many pp's were given out this season as it is wether it be unfairly or just petty little things no team hasn't got one..
FU BIASED ADMINS. yes.solo.I.mean.you
2012-01-01 22:53:39 CET
-lerp 0 cuz i feel better with it.
-dblocker is fine
-wire should take some screens again...
-MORE COMMUNITY VOTES! before changes
2012-01-02 03:17:56 CET
- lerp 0 ty
- dblocker rules now, used to lag things out but not anymore
- Wire works perfectly to me, people should fix their own, i don't get why it wouldn't work only for certain people.
2012-01-02 13:45:48 CET
Using lerp and rates as excuse for poor skills since 1999.
/Any dod player known to man
2012-01-02 14:01:21 CET
instead of pointin it out, you shud edit it boss ;)
Also we can still use it. Css doesnt have the choice. We do. I pref it. We shud all have our lerp white. Not orange. So why dont we increase lerp? Same question i guess cud b asked.
Can some one just answer this for me : if zero lerp does nothing as its a random bug with no advantage , why cant we use it?
2012-01-02 16:28:48 CET
Oh so we all know now why aKa always moaning about lerp... coz he doesn't like orange but he love white color.
2012-01-02 16:31:08 CET
aKaa hates orange. RACIST
2012-01-02 17:44:25 CET
for all i know its causeing loss pretty much
2012-01-03 03:48:39 CET
Ok, I never knew this :) I didnt think it did but I may be wrong :)
You will be working for ESL, are you happy to listen to the feedback and responces? For once it hasnt turned into a flame feast :D
2012-01-03 05:37:31 CET
You cant know this as, simple put, its just wrong.
White-Lerp : The interpolation function has enough "reserves" if loss actually occurs
Orange-Lerp : the indicator will turn orange if the user or server has tuned the ConVars such that the interpolation amount is less than 2 / updaterate. This indicates that if there is any packet loss (or possibly choke if the choke is occurring for long periods of time due to large packets being sent over a low bandwidth rate setting) that the player will likely see sluggishness in the game.
=> Orange doesnt mean that there will be loss/choke for sure, but it COULD happen if your connection to the server is shitty
Yellow Lerp : Server is running with less fps then tickrate = SERVER IS SHIT
Also might occur if the server runs with more than 1000fps, then its just a display bug afaik.
2012-01-03 07:23:48 CET
Would you rather 15.2 lerp and interp_ratio 1 OR 0 lerp and interp_ratio 0?: 0 lerp, interp_ratio 0
Do you like using Dblocker?: No, fml
2012-01-03 18:28:43 CET
I still can't get that point. I guess you are refering to aleutian in the FIrst Champion Cup but tbh this Cup is nothing more than a Nightcup split up in two days.
Tell me where "new" maps shall be tested if not in nightcups. I know you have played it in American Leagues but most of us Europeans did not have the "pleasure" yet.
About all this lerp or futhermore reg story:
I have one spoken to a guy and he told me something about particular netsettings.
rate/cmdrate = net_maxfragments
If u put your rates up to 60000 and devide it through your cmrate which should be 66 youl reach the best value for net_maxfragments: In this case 909.09.
I dont know if it actually bring some advantages but it does make sense as rate is considered to be your whole bandwith while cmdrate is how many packets you are sending per second. Seeing that net_maxfragments is the maxium size of the packets you send you won't have loss at all.
Correct me if i am mistaking
2012-01-08 16:05:13 CET
2012-01-29 12:55:11 CET
0 lerp and interp_ratio_lerp_whatever 0 because the placebo effect makes me think i'll hit better
2012-01-29 13:55:47 CET
no more lower/upper brackets.. takes 6months to finish one fucking season..
2012-02-29 19:10:02 CET
:DDDD STILL QUITTING AFTER THIS SEASON TEPA? YEAH RIGHT LOLOLOLOLO
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