Forums
0
nkr
2011-01-29 14:35:34 CET
Hi there zpgaming.eu sc2 lovers.
The point of this thread will basicly be to help any of you former 1.3/source players who struggle with Starcraft 2 in any strategic way.
This both to help you with the game and also for myself to broaden my perspective of the gameplay.
While I am not yet at the top of the top, I am just below the top 200 playing as zerg.
Are you a diamond or lower protoss or terran user? State your problems here or upload a replay where you struggle or are at loss why the game didn't go your way, and I'll be glad to give you my view of things.
I'll also help any master level or lower zerg to improve their game, or perhaps you could help me.
I'll now and then upload a few replays of myself versus some noteworthy opponents, either for your amusement or feedback.
First replay will be versus the newest addition to the mousesports sc2 squad, a ZvP on Scrap Station.
http://www.mediafire.com/?ss5unhjgg3vckh1
Hopefully this thread will give people more interest in improving in sc2, because I really feel this game is the future of eSports.
Looking forward to any posts!
The point of this thread will basicly be to help any of you former 1.3/source players who struggle with Starcraft 2 in any strategic way.
This both to help you with the game and also for myself to broaden my perspective of the gameplay.
While I am not yet at the top of the top, I am just below the top 200 playing as zerg.
Are you a diamond or lower protoss or terran user? State your problems here or upload a replay where you struggle or are at loss why the game didn't go your way, and I'll be glad to give you my view of things.
I'll also help any master level or lower zerg to improve their game, or perhaps you could help me.
I'll now and then upload a few replays of myself versus some noteworthy opponents, either for your amusement or feedback.
First replay will be versus the newest addition to the mousesports sc2 squad, a ZvP on Scrap Station.
http://www.mediafire.com/?ss5unhjgg3vckh1
Hopefully this thread will give people more interest in improving in sc2, because I really feel this game is the future of eSports.
Looking forward to any posts!
1
rellie
2011-01-29 15:38:09 CET
such a nice guy
2
jo3y
2011-01-29 17:11:35 CET
If this is serious, I really wanna push to diamond at least : im silver atm winning about 75% of my games but I just need help on understanding on how to adapt to certain zerg and terran strategys, as I don't really play those races its hard to judge what their gonna do.. for example i went a simple basic 4 gate as I see the zerg early expands and I try an all in stalker zealot of sentry you know the drill, then he goes roach and pushes me back at this point im thinking of shizz... and hes got 2 bases i got one im at both army and eco loss what do? :D It's like if i expand he'l out macro me anyway + he'l muta harrasme at this point and it's just agh :D or if it's a terran he's have a mass army of marauders seige tanks and marines at this points or atleast enough to stim up my ramp due to my lack of eco.
im watching day9 and husky etc and top tier play (MC, whiterah, huk, TLO, idra meh the cronies to understand better also.
im watching day9 and husky etc and top tier play (MC, whiterah, huk, TLO, idra meh the cronies to understand better also.
3
DuzE
2011-01-29 17:19:38 CET
you really take artosis catch frase "expand if your ahead" seriously :D triple expand, i like it :)
4
nkr
2011-01-29 18:15:36 CET
Hai jothreewhy
Doing the standard fourgate is really of all-in-ish. This means that unless you do significant damage to his economy, you're going to have a hard time getting back in the game no matter what you do after this point.
When it comes to fourgate it's important to really stop at somewhere around 23 probes. If you do zealot/stalker you only need 1 gas. Take 2 and your push will most likely fail. The timing is probably the most important here. If your opponent scouts that you are doing a 4gate, then attack straight away. You really want to attack as soon as the warpgate tech finishes, so 20 seconds before its completed, move out with one or two probes together with your defenses, plant a pylon and begin the warping.
If you want to play an economy based game there are really two standard ways of getting to a point where you wont get outmacroed by the zerg.
The safest way is probably the 3gate expand. Get your first gateway and a gas. Get one zealot and your cybernetics while you take the second gas. Now with all your gas you build a shitload of sentries with 3 gates, while you put down a forge. You could add maybe two stalkers to deny scouting/be safe from pushes.
Move down the ramp and plant your nexus, two more gates and perhaps 2 cannons. After this, move out on the map with your army to gain mapcontrol and see if the zerg is weak or not. Just having your presence on the map forces the zerg to make units instead of drones, which is always good for you. If you are scared of fast mutalisks, or just want to be sure you know what the zerg is doing, research hallucination and use hallucinated pheonixes to scout the map.
There's also a more aggressive approach. Instead of the 2 extra gates and sentries, put down a stargate. Using pheonix and/or voidrays and being in your opponents face all the time, you will basicly force the zerg to stay in his base and unable to expand until he gets to lair-tech. This gives you an opportunity to expand and counter whatever the zerg gets, which you should have no problem scouting. This will most likely be hydras, in which case you will want colossi together with gateway units.
Hope this gives you a push in the right direction as for PvZ.
Doing the standard fourgate is really of all-in-ish. This means that unless you do significant damage to his economy, you're going to have a hard time getting back in the game no matter what you do after this point.
When it comes to fourgate it's important to really stop at somewhere around 23 probes. If you do zealot/stalker you only need 1 gas. Take 2 and your push will most likely fail. The timing is probably the most important here. If your opponent scouts that you are doing a 4gate, then attack straight away. You really want to attack as soon as the warpgate tech finishes, so 20 seconds before its completed, move out with one or two probes together with your defenses, plant a pylon and begin the warping.
If you want to play an economy based game there are really two standard ways of getting to a point where you wont get outmacroed by the zerg.
The safest way is probably the 3gate expand. Get your first gateway and a gas. Get one zealot and your cybernetics while you take the second gas. Now with all your gas you build a shitload of sentries with 3 gates, while you put down a forge. You could add maybe two stalkers to deny scouting/be safe from pushes.
Move down the ramp and plant your nexus, two more gates and perhaps 2 cannons. After this, move out on the map with your army to gain mapcontrol and see if the zerg is weak or not. Just having your presence on the map forces the zerg to make units instead of drones, which is always good for you. If you are scared of fast mutalisks, or just want to be sure you know what the zerg is doing, research hallucination and use hallucinated pheonixes to scout the map.
There's also a more aggressive approach. Instead of the 2 extra gates and sentries, put down a stargate. Using pheonix and/or voidrays and being in your opponents face all the time, you will basicly force the zerg to stay in his base and unable to expand until he gets to lair-tech. This gives you an opportunity to expand and counter whatever the zerg gets, which you should have no problem scouting. This will most likely be hydras, in which case you will want colossi together with gateway units.
Hope this gives you a push in the right direction as for PvZ.
5
nkr
2011-01-29 18:20:31 CET
In PvT, if you have problems with aggressive terrans, your best bet is to always have sentries ready with forcefields. If he tries to push up your ramp, forcefield it so that perhaps a third of it gets up and you will easily deal with that with your whole army. Unless you are behind on bases, you shouldnt have any problems with terrans who try to attack you. Going up a ramp when sentries are on the field is pretty much suicide.
6
micHiiii
2011-01-29 19:41:23 CET
dont listen to this nkr scrub, even i can beat him in zvp
protip for beginners: dont play zerg. JUST DONT.
protip for beginners: dont play zerg. JUST DONT.
7
jo3y
2011-01-29 21:37:05 CET
ok another situation he goes mass marines + marauder medidvac putting pressure on forcefields are ok but i just can't see how im gonna do much against his 1001x troops vs my like 6 forcefields and a few stalkers, what do off 1 base? :D with 3 gates as expanding is impossible ;D on a map such as Scrap station with the mega ramp.
8
nkr
2011-01-30 00:22:04 CET
Well if a terran can get medivacs and a big bio force, you should be in a position where you have colossi. Getting there is usually by going 3gate robo. A riskier but sometimes rewarding build is just 2gate robo into colossi, and then expand.
9
micHiiii
2011-01-30 14:52:02 CET
when you see the zerg is fast-expanding that should make a trigger click for you.
one of them is: punish him or the alternative: expand aswell.
if you choose to do the first, you dont really need to have to wait for a 4gate to finish, just use your normal 2 gates u'd have to apply pressure. as he certanly wont have a roach warren and neither zerglingspeed up reasonably fast, you can either do pressure with zealots & 1-2 cannons, if you have a forge already that is, or with 3-4 stalkers. stalkers are faster then lings offcreep, so you can kite them pretty well. you just need to be carefull not to overcommit and put yourself in a dangerous position. just use the few units to buy yourself time while you can safely macro up.
doing early aggression doesnt have to kill the zerg. you just want to cripple his economy. keep in mind that zergs units spawn out of larva, so every additional pair of lings which he has to build to defend your basic stalkerharrass is a drone hes cutting. so if you play it out well, you should have a pretty reasonable timingwindow where you can eco up aswell and get on pair with the zerg eco.
if hes going roachheavy, add immortals instead of colossi. the plus on this is, that you already have the 2 robotics u'll need anyway since his transition once he sees 2-3 immos will be hydras. most of the time zergs will do a 50/50 mix between roaches and hydras with up to ~10 corruptors. in this case, unitposition is the key to win the game. dont let him get too far ahead on bases, generally as long as hes "just" one expansion ahead youre in fine shape.
be carefull where to engage, try to force fights in chockepoints, as you have superior range and forcefields to even cut the zergs army even more in halfes. the zerg really needs a wellspread arch in order to do significant damage, while the protoss army is more of a "deathball" with the colossi doing the major damage.
if you face the situation where a zerg is playing ling/muta you actually have an easy game, if you play compact. just turtle up. sentrys are the keyunits vs this build. with wellplaced forcefields you can actually completly nullify damage from the zerglings, 2-3 collosi will clean them up with ease. vs mutas, blinkstalker are clearly your best choice. once youre up to 3 base, ht's also do really well against muta ling. just dont try to be too agressive against this build though, because that is what the zerg wants. once you move out too early he will punish it with ling runbys or just kill some stuff with his mutas.
hope it help'd you a little :d
but most importantly: when youre stuck in lower divisions, unit compositions wont matter that much. just try to play a good macro game and you will go through divisions with ease. on reddit some guy even posted a replaypack of himself on a testkeyaccount as p where he went 17-0 with nothing but building stalkers and just a-move units into his base.
macro really makes the difference
one of them is: punish him or the alternative: expand aswell.
if you choose to do the first, you dont really need to have to wait for a 4gate to finish, just use your normal 2 gates u'd have to apply pressure. as he certanly wont have a roach warren and neither zerglingspeed up reasonably fast, you can either do pressure with zealots & 1-2 cannons, if you have a forge already that is, or with 3-4 stalkers. stalkers are faster then lings offcreep, so you can kite them pretty well. you just need to be carefull not to overcommit and put yourself in a dangerous position. just use the few units to buy yourself time while you can safely macro up.
doing early aggression doesnt have to kill the zerg. you just want to cripple his economy. keep in mind that zergs units spawn out of larva, so every additional pair of lings which he has to build to defend your basic stalkerharrass is a drone hes cutting. so if you play it out well, you should have a pretty reasonable timingwindow where you can eco up aswell and get on pair with the zerg eco.
if hes going roachheavy, add immortals instead of colossi. the plus on this is, that you already have the 2 robotics u'll need anyway since his transition once he sees 2-3 immos will be hydras. most of the time zergs will do a 50/50 mix between roaches and hydras with up to ~10 corruptors. in this case, unitposition is the key to win the game. dont let him get too far ahead on bases, generally as long as hes "just" one expansion ahead youre in fine shape.
be carefull where to engage, try to force fights in chockepoints, as you have superior range and forcefields to even cut the zergs army even more in halfes. the zerg really needs a wellspread arch in order to do significant damage, while the protoss army is more of a "deathball" with the colossi doing the major damage.
if you face the situation where a zerg is playing ling/muta you actually have an easy game, if you play compact. just turtle up. sentrys are the keyunits vs this build. with wellplaced forcefields you can actually completly nullify damage from the zerglings, 2-3 collosi will clean them up with ease. vs mutas, blinkstalker are clearly your best choice. once youre up to 3 base, ht's also do really well against muta ling. just dont try to be too agressive against this build though, because that is what the zerg wants. once you move out too early he will punish it with ling runbys or just kill some stuff with his mutas.
hope it help'd you a little :d
but most importantly: when youre stuck in lower divisions, unit compositions wont matter that much. just try to play a good macro game and you will go through divisions with ease. on reddit some guy even posted a replaypack of himself on a testkeyaccount as p where he went 17-0 with nothing but building stalkers and just a-move units into his base.
macro really makes the difference
10
Dream
2011-01-30 15:16:35 CET
You can reach platinum without taking too much care about theorycraft. So practice,practice ,practice. Then when you reach platinum or like that start to take care about tiny details of the game. Cause even if u get a clever clue about what to do, you have to be able to do it .
11
firo
2011-01-30 15:54:07 CET
any terran mentor? :)
12
turtz
2011-01-30 16:46:49 CET
Any tips on getting laid? ......
Thought not...
;D
hi patrik :)
Thought not...
;D
hi patrik :)
15
bunzz
2011-01-30 21:28:30 CET
fucking dick
16
jo3y
2011-01-30 21:32:41 CET
Thanks for the advice :D, but ye i really wanna start learning these little bits and bobs rather than just jumping straight into plat thinking ot oh
17
nkr
2011-01-30 22:28:26 CET
Update with another replay, this time against a terran from the top200. The game is once again on scrap station and against michiis favorite mech build. Pretty intense 30 minute game.
http://www.mediafire.com/?7if7g4mmr92o5q7
http://www.mediafire.com/?7if7g4mmr92o5q7
18
pRiiiii
2011-01-30 23:51:48 CET
#11
Decent terran build order:
10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks
14 Supply Depot (Finish Wall-in... every map is different)
15 Refinery
16 Scout
17 Marine
17 Orbital Command
17 Tech Lab (First Barracks)
17 Supply Depot
18 2nd Barracks
18 Marauder
20 3rd Barracks
20 Supply Depot
24 Reactor on 2nd Barracks
26 Supply Depot
MAKE SUPPLY DEPOTS NONSTOP WITH 1 SCV
27 Tech Lab on 3rd Barracks
CONSTANTLY MAKE 2X MARINES AND 2X MARAUDERS FROM ALL BARRACKS.
35 2nd Refinery
PUSH OUT ONCE FIRST MARAUDER SPAWNS FROM 3RD BARRACKS
45 Stimpack
Constantly produce units.
Depending on how our attack goes:
Goes Well: Keep pressure up, producing units
If Goes Normal: Tech to Medvacs
If Goes Poorly: Turtle and build Command Center in main to expand.
Decent terran build order:
10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks
14 Supply Depot (Finish Wall-in... every map is different)
15 Refinery
16 Scout
17 Marine
17 Orbital Command
17 Tech Lab (First Barracks)
17 Supply Depot
18 2nd Barracks
18 Marauder
20 3rd Barracks
20 Supply Depot
24 Reactor on 2nd Barracks
26 Supply Depot
MAKE SUPPLY DEPOTS NONSTOP WITH 1 SCV
27 Tech Lab on 3rd Barracks
CONSTANTLY MAKE 2X MARINES AND 2X MARAUDERS FROM ALL BARRACKS.
35 2nd Refinery
PUSH OUT ONCE FIRST MARAUDER SPAWNS FROM 3RD BARRACKS
45 Stimpack
Constantly produce units.
Depending on how our attack goes:
Goes Well: Keep pressure up, producing units
If Goes Normal: Tech to Medvacs
If Goes Poorly: Turtle and build Command Center in main to expand.
19
nbad
2011-01-31 12:22:07 CET
Is there a good guide for sc2 for complete rts noobs?
20
Chuckee
2011-01-31 12:37:06 CET
#19 try watching some of Husky's vids he outlines some basic learning tools for build for races and using the hotkeys etc.
FOR UNIDEN!
FOR UNIDEN!
21
qoxc
2011-01-31 16:18:05 CET
I really feel the mods of half-life 3 are the future of eSports
sc has always been too boring for me
sc has always been too boring for me
22
AzZa
2011-01-31 23:38:56 CET
Nice idea Patrik. :)
Hahahahahha, you totally posted the Dreiven replay :DD EPENIS
Hahahahahha, you totally posted the Dreiven replay :DD EPENIS
23
micHiiii
2011-02-01 02:01:06 CET
#19 i clearly WOULDNT recommend you watching any of huskys stream for learning purposes. hes more focussed onto entertainment then actual gamemechanics.
if you want to learn by watching i can recommend you watching the day[9] archives over at day9tv.blip.tv
especially the day[9] teaches djwheat is a pretty good episode for beginners to start with. opened my eyes back in the days a lot about my own play.
it would be helpfull to know what race youre planning on playing aswell, as theres ton of tutorial videos online.
if you get a little more advanced you should definatly watch the mr.bitter 12 weeks with the pros episodes:
http://mrbitter.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc
for the case you dont know what this is about: mrbitter is a semi-decent (above average standard but no top-notch) american zerg and community member of teamliquid that payed for lessons fromseveral coaches such as iNcontrol, lzgamer, ret to stream it for everyone. theire theorycrafting a lot about specific builds, e.g. ret gives an 2 hour insight into his zvz thoughts or lzgamer and iNcontrol talk about dealing with 2 rax pressure.
also from time to time he streams total beginners getting coached by iNcontrol.
talking bout incontrol, just look for threadtitles with his name on tl and you will find several vods of him coaching different players, mainly protoss.
if you want to learn by watching i can recommend you watching the day[9] archives over at day9tv.blip.tv
especially the day[9] teaches djwheat is a pretty good episode for beginners to start with. opened my eyes back in the days a lot about my own play.
it would be helpfull to know what race youre planning on playing aswell, as theres ton of tutorial videos online.
if you get a little more advanced you should definatly watch the mr.bitter 12 weeks with the pros episodes:
http://mrbitter.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc
for the case you dont know what this is about: mrbitter is a semi-decent (above average standard but no top-notch) american zerg and community member of teamliquid that payed for lessons fromseveral coaches such as iNcontrol, lzgamer, ret to stream it for everyone. theire theorycrafting a lot about specific builds, e.g. ret gives an 2 hour insight into his zvz thoughts or lzgamer and iNcontrol talk about dealing with 2 rax pressure.
also from time to time he streams total beginners getting coached by iNcontrol.
talking bout incontrol, just look for threadtitles with his name on tl and you will find several vods of him coaching different players, mainly protoss.
25
mattiiii
2011-02-01 10:21:28 CET
Use your xfire account to stream it nkr. It's dead easy.
26
pRiiiii
2011-02-01 23:04:27 CET
I won my first sc2 game today :')
I went colossus, void rays and stalkers vs hydras, roaches and ultras.
Need to work on macro during engaging though, like producing units while I'm attacking. Any tips on how to do that without having to do it manually?
I went colossus, void rays and stalkers vs hydras, roaches and ultras.
Need to work on macro during engaging though, like producing units while I'm attacking. Any tips on how to do that without having to do it manually?
27
berr0n
2011-02-02 11:15:13 CET
28
pRiiiii
2011-02-02 12:29:47 CET
Depends on map, as #18 says. If opponent is close by, he'll probably scout you regardless of build order. If it's a larger map you can wall in as quickly as possible, and then get your first marine out to deal with harass. Then start building your army.
That's how I'm thinking though. If I get scouted early game and have "chosen" a tech route, I always change. I'm a nub at sc2 though :)
That's how I'm thinking though. If I get scouted early game and have "chosen" a tech route, I always change. I'm a nub at sc2 though :)
29
Chuckee
2011-02-02 12:47:32 CET
#26 I'm a bit of a nub too but I play protoss as well. Hotkeys are most valuable in building up your macro so you don't have to worry about constantly shifting from your attack units to your base. You can warp guys in or if you have stargate/robo bind them to a number that way you can just press 5 and click to build a colossus/void ray dead fast. If you have 3 stagates bind them all to the same number and you can build 3 units at the same time. Very useful if you find yourself unable to spend your money fast enough.
Hope this helps but I may be mumbling...
Hope this helps but I may be mumbling...
30
pRiiiii
2011-02-02 15:09:56 CET
#29 Yeah, probably what I need to work on. How about rallypoints? I've seen loads of replays where the rallypoint is set to your attacking army - why would they do that? I could understand it if your attacking army is superior, and then just keep up pressure by bringing in reinforcements.
And one more thing. Unless you're playing random, why scout? Is it only to try and see what tech route he's going?
And one more thing. Unless you're playing random, why scout? Is it only to try and see what tech route he's going?
31
Chuckee
2011-02-02 16:31:28 CET
Scouting takes a bit of time to nail down but it can be essential in being able to counter what your opponent is trying to do especially if they plan to rush you. For example if you see a terran opponent starting to go mass barracks and withhold building any gas then you know he's gonna get busy on you harrassing with a loada marines and it gives you time to react to that. If he goes for gas then hes gonna try to add some marauders early on. It takes some practice in identifying what your opponent is gonna build but be willing to lose aloada matches until you keep experimenting and find out some good counters.
If you can try even finding a friend and ask him to do a strat like just mass roach me from the start and find out what sucks and what works
If you can try even finding a friend and ask him to do a strat like just mass roach me from the start and find out what sucks and what works
32
nkr
2011-02-02 20:17:04 CET
Scouting becomes probably the most important part of your game when you get a little more advanced. If I scout a terran and see a gas before the barracks i know exactly what the next 10 minutes of the game are going to look like, and what I will have to defend against. Same with protoss, if I see two gas after gateway, I will make four or six zerglings and only make drones for five minutes.
However at any lower levels where the game is not as advanced strategicly, scouting will be primarily to see what unit compositions he has, what his tech tree is, and his army positioning. All are probably equally important.
However at any lower levels where the game is not as advanced strategicly, scouting will be primarily to see what unit compositions he has, what his tech tree is, and his army positioning. All are probably equally important.
33
pRiiiii
2011-02-02 21:39:22 CET
Proximity is also important, isn't it? A game will be different if your opponent is close, rather than at opposite side of map. Also, I guess maps play a crucial role for strategic choices?
You play zerg only #32?
You play zerg only #32?
34
nkr
2011-02-02 22:55:12 CET
Well.. yeah you obviously want to know where your opponent is, sometimes the obvious is too obvious to see :P
I was pretty much random up until three months ago, then Dream forced me to pick a race
I was pretty much random up until three months ago, then Dream forced me to pick a race
35
jo3y
2011-02-03 01:15:50 CET
2 gate robo is so hard to execute vs a 1 base terran who balls up mara marine and st's : hate it.
36
neiljo
2011-02-03 11:27:34 CET
Even in silver it's ridiculously important for a zerg to scout efficiently, took me a while but think i'm slowly getting better now i have a grasp on what i'm scouting actually means and my response (do i expand? do i 1 base? roaches? drone? etc) even though my zvz is much worse and i'm not too confident vs collosi/stalker/zealot, even though i know the counter is roach/hydra/corruptor i always seem to get caught off guard and in a bad position because of the collosi' huge range. Enjoyed watching you beat Dreiven even if he was too high or whatever he says.
37
AzZa
2011-02-03 11:34:45 CET
ZvZ is so dependant on the "Rock - Paper - Scissor" circumstance, atleast in early game.
Say you go mass speedlings and he goes banelings, you're fucked.
If you go for a 7 roach rush and he goes mass speedlings, then you're done for as well, atleast if he gets a good sorround on your roaches. (IMPORTANT :D)
And banelings vs banelings or roaches vs roaches etc. is so dependant on Micro.
Which brings me to my conclusion of the fact that ZvZ is the best mirror match up imo, just because.. well.. TvT is just tank vs tank and protoss is just 4 gate vs 4 gate, usually. :P
Say you go mass speedlings and he goes banelings, you're fucked.
If you go for a 7 roach rush and he goes mass speedlings, then you're done for as well, atleast if he gets a good sorround on your roaches. (IMPORTANT :D)
And banelings vs banelings or roaches vs roaches etc. is so dependant on Micro.
Which brings me to my conclusion of the fact that ZvZ is the best mirror match up imo, just because.. well.. TvT is just tank vs tank and protoss is just 4 gate vs 4 gate, usually. :P
38
neiljo
2011-02-03 12:11:14 CET
fastest mirror match
39
micHiiii
2011-02-03 14:56:28 CET
actually zvz is pretty easy
you go 15 hatch -> you win, unless your oponent goes 9 pool
you go 14 pool -> you loose if your oponent goes 15 hatch
you go 9 pool -> you definatly loose if your oponent decides not to 15 hatch
:P
its all about agression. if your oponent goes for fast roaches you will have more then enough time to react if you have a proper overloard spread. besides that, hes forced to stay defensive until roachspeed is up.
generally you want to open up with speedlings, use them to scout a bit and if you see your oponent is weak to kill him.
you go 15 hatch -> you win, unless your oponent goes 9 pool
you go 14 pool -> you loose if your oponent goes 15 hatch
you go 9 pool -> you definatly loose if your oponent decides not to 15 hatch
:P
its all about agression. if your oponent goes for fast roaches you will have more then enough time to react if you have a proper overloard spread. besides that, hes forced to stay defensive until roachspeed is up.
generally you want to open up with speedlings, use them to scout a bit and if you see your oponent is weak to kill him.
40
rellie
2011-02-03 16:03:28 CET
neil ord i miss you
41
An1maL
2011-02-04 02:29:53 CET
hey, so i got sc2, its pretty good fun :D i'm a total noob so i have some questions
can someone talk about unit control? like, how to skillfully control units using macro or whatever to avoid getting them owned. i thought rts would be a matter of attrition, but apparently controlling the units must be skillful? for example i'm trying to beat the AI using terran vs protoss, but my units just get completely decimated, especially when they get that shield thing going. never played protoss so is there a way to combat that shield? I'll have 10 units vs their 10 units and end up killing none of theirs :D
can someone talk about unit control? like, how to skillfully control units using macro or whatever to avoid getting them owned. i thought rts would be a matter of attrition, but apparently controlling the units must be skillful? for example i'm trying to beat the AI using terran vs protoss, but my units just get completely decimated, especially when they get that shield thing going. never played protoss so is there a way to combat that shield? I'll have 10 units vs their 10 units and end up killing none of theirs :D
42
micHiiii
2011-02-04 06:13:44 CET
well again its kinda important to know what race you are playing.
generally, when the game surpasses the early game stage you want to create a big concave/arch, so that you can maximize the ammount of damage output of your army. this is especially important as zerg.
if you can tell me your race and maybe add 1 or 2 replays of your previous games i can give you a little feedback and advice :)
ps: unitcontrol = micro ":D"
generally, when the game surpasses the early game stage you want to create a big concave/arch, so that you can maximize the ammount of damage output of your army. this is especially important as zerg.
if you can tell me your race and maybe add 1 or 2 replays of your previous games i can give you a little feedback and advice :)
ps: unitcontrol = micro ":D"
43
neiljo
2011-02-04 07:32:47 CET
It's probably more a build order > macro issue (building & managing your base & unit production efficiently) or not knowing decent unit composition/counters an1. Build orders are measured in your supply count or food count, i'd help you myself but i play zerg (and badly) but #18 is a terran build order.
Micro wise, like michii said you want to try and catch there army in choke points while you have a decent arc so more of your troops are firing than theirs, vs zerg group up and avoid surrounds and use terrain/buildings to reduce the surface area they can attack of your troops since yours are ranged and theres are melee, you can also practice kiting (firing then move a step, rinse & repeat) against slower melee targets. You can "sim city" your base which is build it intentionally so it gives you this advantage.
Ps: Zp should take on some SC2 players from the dods scene and enter some team leagues always good to see familiar faces :P
Micro wise, like michii said you want to try and catch there army in choke points while you have a decent arc so more of your troops are firing than theirs, vs zerg group up and avoid surrounds and use terrain/buildings to reduce the surface area they can attack of your troops since yours are ranged and theres are melee, you can also practice kiting (firing then move a step, rinse & repeat) against slower melee targets. You can "sim city" your base which is build it intentionally so it gives you this advantage.
Ps: Zp should take on some SC2 players from the dods scene and enter some team leagues always good to see familiar faces :P
44
pRiiiii
2011-02-04 12:12:51 CET
I'll post a replay of myself later today, probably a loss. Then give me feedback and tell me where I go wrong. i'm trying to follow husky/day9 advice, but to no avail.
And yes #43, effectively managing base and units is key. I suck at that though. Either I get supply blocked or I run out of mins. I must admit that I have gotten good at building probes though ^_^
And yes #43, effectively managing base and units is key. I suck at that though. Either I get supply blocked or I run out of mins. I must admit that I have gotten good at building probes though ^_^
45
nkr
2011-02-04 14:23:43 CET
46
nkr
2011-02-04 14:28:26 CET
#25 I tried a few streaming services but they seem to lag my pc beyond all belief, which is wierd since it's not that bad. Is xfire any good? Never tried it.
47
pRiiiii
2011-02-04 16:05:37 CET
I actually won the game I'm uploading now. But feedback is appreciated. Please gief.
http://rapidshare.com/files/446164330/2ND_WIN.SC2Replay
http://rapidshare.com/files/446164330/2ND_WIN.SC2Replay
48
neiljo
2011-02-04 16:19:11 CET
nkr, can you post some good examples of where you beat zvp where they go collosi & warpgate units, a 4 gate (even though i pretty much have this down apart from when i end up backed into a corner in my base and they are picking my units off with sentry forcefields) and some zvz.
49
jo3y
2011-02-04 17:35:37 CET
Im getting sick of terran cheese ;9
